Vintage In-Line Rifle & Sabot Load Data
The big bodied buck shown above is the first whitetail I ever took with a saboted bullet...but it was not the first deer I ever took with an in-line ignition muzzle-loaded rifle. I was fortunate enough to have this super-nice eight-pointer saunter past my stand on the third morning of the 1987 Missouri deer season. And what made this hunt so special was that the deer was shot barely a half-mile from the small garage shop where the rifle used was built. In fact, I was hunting with William "Tony" Knight on his family's farm.
The previous year (1986), I had used my first Knight MK-85, Serial No. 37, to take my first in-line rifle buck while hunting in my home state of Illinois. That deer was also a farly good eight-pointer, cleanly taken at about 60 yards. That early Knight rifle was a .50 caliber, rifled with a reasonably slow 1-turn-in-48 inches rifling twist. And the load used consisted of 90-grains of Pyrodex "RS" behind one of the 385-grain bore-sized swaged soft lead Buffalo Bullets. Hit perfectly just to the rear of the front shoulder, the buck went down within 20 yards.
The following spring and summer, Tony Knight and I had a few opportunities to get together and do some shooting with a custom 1-turn-in-24 inches rate of twist barrel I had installed on a traditionally styled .50 caliber bullet rifle, which gave us an opportunity to try the then brand new saboted bullet concept in something with a snappier spin of the rifling than the 1-in-48 barrels Tony had used to build the first 150 or so Modern Muzzleloading MK-85 rifles. We were both impressed, and Tony decided to build the MK-85 specifically for shooting saboted bullets - settling on a turn-in-32 inches twist. And that's the twist in the rifle shown in the above photo. (Two years later, the twist was changed to a turn-in-28 inches.)
For the 1987 season, I was loading the .50 caliber MK-85 with 90 grains of Pyrodex "RS" behind a saboted 260-grain Speer .451 jacketed hollow-point. At the muzzle, the load was good for just under 1,570 f.p.s., with around 1,415 f.p.e. The 250-pound liveweight whitetail passed by my ridgetop stand at about 45 yards, but due to the thick cover, I was unable to take a shot. Fortunately, the deer angled down a wide point another 25 yards, and stopped broadside - standing in the middle of the only open spot on that side of the hardwood covered ridge. The shot was about 70 yards, and the rifle placed the 260-grain hollow-point perfectly. The buck went down on the spot. And I knew at that very moment that the vast majority of my muzzleloader hunting on into the future would be done with a modern in-line rifle and saboted bullet. Little did I realize then how much further the modern side of this sport would continue to evolve.
For those of you who still hunt with one of the early in-line rifle models, following is the data for some popular and widely used saboted bullet loads from the late 1980s and early 1990s. I'm also including a few loads using finer and hotter Pyrodex "P", which I went to almost exclusively by 1992. Be sure to read the follow up after the load data that follows.
Toby Bridges, North American Muzzleloader Hunting
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The previous year (1986), I had used my first Knight MK-85, Serial No. 37, to take my first in-line rifle buck while hunting in my home state of Illinois. That deer was also a farly good eight-pointer, cleanly taken at about 60 yards. That early Knight rifle was a .50 caliber, rifled with a reasonably slow 1-turn-in-48 inches rifling twist. And the load used consisted of 90-grains of Pyrodex "RS" behind one of the 385-grain bore-sized swaged soft lead Buffalo Bullets. Hit perfectly just to the rear of the front shoulder, the buck went down within 20 yards.
The following spring and summer, Tony Knight and I had a few opportunities to get together and do some shooting with a custom 1-turn-in-24 inches rate of twist barrel I had installed on a traditionally styled .50 caliber bullet rifle, which gave us an opportunity to try the then brand new saboted bullet concept in something with a snappier spin of the rifling than the 1-in-48 barrels Tony had used to build the first 150 or so Modern Muzzleloading MK-85 rifles. We were both impressed, and Tony decided to build the MK-85 specifically for shooting saboted bullets - settling on a turn-in-32 inches twist. And that's the twist in the rifle shown in the above photo. (Two years later, the twist was changed to a turn-in-28 inches.)
For the 1987 season, I was loading the .50 caliber MK-85 with 90 grains of Pyrodex "RS" behind a saboted 260-grain Speer .451 jacketed hollow-point. At the muzzle, the load was good for just under 1,570 f.p.s., with around 1,415 f.p.e. The 250-pound liveweight whitetail passed by my ridgetop stand at about 45 yards, but due to the thick cover, I was unable to take a shot. Fortunately, the deer angled down a wide point another 25 yards, and stopped broadside - standing in the middle of the only open spot on that side of the hardwood covered ridge. The shot was about 70 yards, and the rifle placed the 260-grain hollow-point perfectly. The buck went down on the spot. And I knew at that very moment that the vast majority of my muzzleloader hunting on into the future would be done with a modern in-line rifle and saboted bullet. Little did I realize then how much further the modern side of this sport would continue to evolve.
For those of you who still hunt with one of the early in-line rifle models, following is the data for some popular and widely used saboted bullet loads from the late 1980s and early 1990s. I'm also including a few loads using finer and hotter Pyrodex "P", which I went to almost exclusively by 1992. Be sure to read the follow up after the load data that follows.
Toby Bridges, North American Muzzleloader Hunting
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Knight Rifles (Modern Muzzleloading) .50 MK-85 Model - Circa 1990
Barrel Length: 24" Green Mountain
Land-to-Land: 500"
Groove-to-Groove: .510"
Rate of Twist: 1 Turn-in-28"
Ignition: No. 11 Percussion Cap
Bullet: .451" 260-grain Speer JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point) - .154 b.c.
Sabot: Muzzleload Magnum Products .50x.45 (Black)
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
Pyrodex "RS" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,566 f.p.s./1,412 f.p.e. 1,076 f.p.s./668 f.p.e. 954 f.p.s./523 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,641 f.p.s./1,552 f.p.e. 1,111 f.p.s./711 f.p.e. 997 f.p.s./572 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,694 f.p.s./1,661 f.p.e. 1,155 f.p.s./770 f.p.e. 1,027 f.p.s./608 f.p.e.
Pyrodex "P" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,621 f.p.s./1,515 f.p.e. 1,117 f.p.s./720 f.p.e. 986 f.p.s./559 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,704 f.p.s./1,672 f.p.e. 1,156 f.p.s./769 f.p.e. 1,016 f.p.s./594 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,761 f.p.s./1,789 f.p.e. 1,202 f.p.s./832 f.p.e. 1,049 f.p.s./637 f.p.e
Go To http://www.namlhunt.com/modernmldata.html And See What 3 More Inches Of Barrel...The Same Volume Amount Of Blackhorn 209...And A More Aerodynamic Bullet Like The Spire-Pointed 260-Grain Scorpion PT Gold Does For Ballistics - Especially Down Range!
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Land-to-Land: 500"
Groove-to-Groove: .510"
Rate of Twist: 1 Turn-in-28"
Ignition: No. 11 Percussion Cap
Bullet: .451" 260-grain Speer JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point) - .154 b.c.
Sabot: Muzzleload Magnum Products .50x.45 (Black)
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
Pyrodex "RS" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,566 f.p.s./1,412 f.p.e. 1,076 f.p.s./668 f.p.e. 954 f.p.s./523 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,641 f.p.s./1,552 f.p.e. 1,111 f.p.s./711 f.p.e. 997 f.p.s./572 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,694 f.p.s./1,661 f.p.e. 1,155 f.p.s./770 f.p.e. 1,027 f.p.s./608 f.p.e.
Pyrodex "P" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,621 f.p.s./1,515 f.p.e. 1,117 f.p.s./720 f.p.e. 986 f.p.s./559 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,704 f.p.s./1,672 f.p.e. 1,156 f.p.s./769 f.p.e. 1,016 f.p.s./594 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,761 f.p.s./1,789 f.p.e. 1,202 f.p.s./832 f.p.e. 1,049 f.p.s./637 f.p.e
Go To http://www.namlhunt.com/modernmldata.html And See What 3 More Inches Of Barrel...The Same Volume Amount Of Blackhorn 209...And A More Aerodynamic Bullet Like The Spire-Pointed 260-Grain Scorpion PT Gold Does For Ballistics - Especially Down Range!
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Thompson/Center .50 ThunderHawk - Circa 1992
Barrel Length" 24"
Land-to-Land: .500"
Groove-to-Groove: .510"
Rate of Twist: 1 Turn-in-38"
Ignition: No. 11 Percussion Cap
Bullet: .430" 240-grain Hornady XTP JHP - .205 b.c.
Sabot: Muzzleload Magnum Products .50x.44 (Green)
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
FFg Black Powder - GOEX
90 gr. 1,497 f.p.s./1,197 f.p.e. 1,022 f.p.s./557 f.p.e. 889 f.p.s./422 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,543 f.p.s./1,265 f.p.e. 1,073 f.p.s./614 f.p.e. 936 f.p.s./466 f.p.e.
Note: N.A. Muzzleloader Hunting shot the above loads and these are the velocities we achieved. During the early 1990s, Thompson/Center ballistics were a bit more generous. Following are the FFg black powder loads the company published in the ThunderHawk manual, circa 1992 - using their "Break-o-Way" sabot instead of the Muzzleload Magnum Products sabot. A 100-grain charge of FFg black powder was listed as "Maximum".
90 gr. 1,606 f.p.s./1,375 f.p.e. No Down Range Data Provided
100 gr. 1,640 f.p.s./1,434 f.p.e. No Down Range Data Provided
It also should be noted that the ONLY loads T/C provided for the rifle was with FFg black powder only. Following are a couple of loads that N.A. Muzzleloader Hunting has shot with charges of Pyrodex "RS-Select"
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
Pyrodex "RS-Select" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,574 f.p.s./1,316 f.p.e. 1,056 f.p.s./593 f.p.e. 922 f.p.s./451 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,638 f.p.s./1,430 f.p.e. 1,091 f.p.s./632 f.p.e. 968 f.p.s./496 f.p.e.
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Land-to-Land: .500"
Groove-to-Groove: .510"
Rate of Twist: 1 Turn-in-38"
Ignition: No. 11 Percussion Cap
Bullet: .430" 240-grain Hornady XTP JHP - .205 b.c.
Sabot: Muzzleload Magnum Products .50x.44 (Green)
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
FFg Black Powder - GOEX
90 gr. 1,497 f.p.s./1,197 f.p.e. 1,022 f.p.s./557 f.p.e. 889 f.p.s./422 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,543 f.p.s./1,265 f.p.e. 1,073 f.p.s./614 f.p.e. 936 f.p.s./466 f.p.e.
Note: N.A. Muzzleloader Hunting shot the above loads and these are the velocities we achieved. During the early 1990s, Thompson/Center ballistics were a bit more generous. Following are the FFg black powder loads the company published in the ThunderHawk manual, circa 1992 - using their "Break-o-Way" sabot instead of the Muzzleload Magnum Products sabot. A 100-grain charge of FFg black powder was listed as "Maximum".
90 gr. 1,606 f.p.s./1,375 f.p.e. No Down Range Data Provided
100 gr. 1,640 f.p.s./1,434 f.p.e. No Down Range Data Provided
It also should be noted that the ONLY loads T/C provided for the rifle was with FFg black powder only. Following are a couple of loads that N.A. Muzzleloader Hunting has shot with charges of Pyrodex "RS-Select"
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
Pyrodex "RS-Select" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,574 f.p.s./1,316 f.p.e. 1,056 f.p.s./593 f.p.e. 922 f.p.s./451 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,638 f.p.s./1,430 f.p.e. 1,091 f.p.s./632 f.p.e. 968 f.p.s./496 f.p.e.
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Knight Rifles .50 Caliber MK-95 Magnum Elite & Original DISC Rifle
Barrel Length: 24" Green Mountain
Land-to-Land: 500"
Groove-to-Groove: .510"
Rate of Twist: 1 Turn-in-28"
Ignition: MK-95 Magnum Elite - Large Rifle Primer (Posi-Fire)
Original DISC Rifle - No. 209 Shot-Shell Primer
Note: Both of these models utilize a plastic primer carrier.
Bullet: .451" 250-grain Barnes All-Copper Expander MZ/Knight Red Hot Bullet - .176 b.c.
Sabot: Muzzleload Magnum Products .50x.45 (Black)
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
Pyrodex "RS" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,583 f.p.s./1,390 f.p.e. 1,122 f.p.s./698 f.p.e. 981 f.p.s./533 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,674 f.p.s./1,555 f.p.e. 1,136 f.p.s./715 f.p.e. 1,016 f.p.s./573 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,736 f.p.s./1,670 f.p.e. 1,189 f.p.s./784 f.p.e. 1,047 f.p.s./608 f.p.e.
Pyrodex "P" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,618 f.p.s./1,452 f.p.e. 1,147 f.p.s./728 f.p.e. 1,006 f.p.s./560 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,725 f.p.s./1,651 f.p.e. 1,191 f.p.s./786 f.p.e. 1,044 f.p.s./604 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,773 f.p.s./1,753 f.p.e. 1,219 f.p.s./825 f.p.e. 1,066 f.p.s./630 f.p.e.
Bullet: .451" 300-grain Barnes All-Copper Expander MZ/Knight Red Hot Bullet - .211 b.c.
Sabot: Muzzleload Magnum Products .50x.45 (Black)
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
Pyrodex "RS" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,508 f.p.s./1,514 f.p.e. 1,088 f.p.s./783 f.p.e. 947 f.p.s./597 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,611 f.p.s./1,725 f.p.e. 1,122 f.p.s./837 f.p.e. 977 f.p.s./636 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,684 f.p.s./1,890 f.p.e. 1,158 f.p.s./894 f.p.e. 1,069 f.p.s./761 f.p.e.
Pyrodex "P" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,541 f.p.s./1,579 f.p.e. 1,110 f.p.s./819 f.p.e. 966 f.p.s./619 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,636 f.p.s./1,782 f.p.e. 1,144 f.p.s./870 f.p.e. 996 f.p.s./660 f.p.e. 110 gr. 1,702 f.p.s./1,926 f.p.e. 1,182 f.p.s./930 f.p.e. 1,088 f.p.s./786 f.p.e.
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Land-to-Land: 500"
Groove-to-Groove: .510"
Rate of Twist: 1 Turn-in-28"
Ignition: MK-95 Magnum Elite - Large Rifle Primer (Posi-Fire)
Original DISC Rifle - No. 209 Shot-Shell Primer
Note: Both of these models utilize a plastic primer carrier.
Bullet: .451" 250-grain Barnes All-Copper Expander MZ/Knight Red Hot Bullet - .176 b.c.
Sabot: Muzzleload Magnum Products .50x.45 (Black)
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
Pyrodex "RS" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,583 f.p.s./1,390 f.p.e. 1,122 f.p.s./698 f.p.e. 981 f.p.s./533 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,674 f.p.s./1,555 f.p.e. 1,136 f.p.s./715 f.p.e. 1,016 f.p.s./573 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,736 f.p.s./1,670 f.p.e. 1,189 f.p.s./784 f.p.e. 1,047 f.p.s./608 f.p.e.
Pyrodex "P" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,618 f.p.s./1,452 f.p.e. 1,147 f.p.s./728 f.p.e. 1,006 f.p.s./560 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,725 f.p.s./1,651 f.p.e. 1,191 f.p.s./786 f.p.e. 1,044 f.p.s./604 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,773 f.p.s./1,753 f.p.e. 1,219 f.p.s./825 f.p.e. 1,066 f.p.s./630 f.p.e.
Bullet: .451" 300-grain Barnes All-Copper Expander MZ/Knight Red Hot Bullet - .211 b.c.
Sabot: Muzzleload Magnum Products .50x.45 (Black)
Load Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy 100-Yard Velocity/Energy 150-Yard Velocity/Energy
Pyrodex "RS" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,508 f.p.s./1,514 f.p.e. 1,088 f.p.s./783 f.p.e. 947 f.p.s./597 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,611 f.p.s./1,725 f.p.e. 1,122 f.p.s./837 f.p.e. 977 f.p.s./636 f.p.e.
110 gr. 1,684 f.p.s./1,890 f.p.e. 1,158 f.p.s./894 f.p.e. 1,069 f.p.s./761 f.p.e.
Pyrodex "P" - Hodgdon Powder Co.
90 gr. 1,541 f.p.s./1,579 f.p.e. 1,110 f.p.s./819 f.p.e. 966 f.p.s./619 f.p.e.
100 gr. 1,636 f.p.s./1,782 f.p.e. 1,144 f.p.s./870 f.p.e. 996 f.p.s./660 f.p.e. 110 gr. 1,702 f.p.s./1,926 f.p.e. 1,182 f.p.s./930 f.p.e. 1,088 f.p.s./786 f.p.e.
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Knight .54 Caliber MK-95 Magnum Elite
We Should Have This Data Available By Thanksgiving Day...November 24, 2011
Photo of Tony Knight with a great British Columbia black bear taken with a Knight Magnum Elite prototype in 1994.
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Coming Soon - Loads & Data For T/C Scout Rifle & Carbine...
During the mid 1990s, the Thompson/Center Arms Scout Rifle and short Scout Carbine were popular with muzzleloading whitetail hunters. We'll share a few popular loads before the end of the year. Be sure to come back and visit...to see the difference a shorter carbine length barrel made with the powders available then.
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Compare The Ballistics On This Page With That Of Today's In-Line Rifles...
Anyone thinking that all modern in-line .50 caliber muzzleloaders are pretty much the same sure hasn't kept up with the times. If you still happen to hunt with one of the older model in-line ignition rifles, like the Knight MK-85 or the Thompson/Center ThunderHawk, loading and shooting the powders and saboted bullets available 15 to 20 years ago, you simply are not getting the kind of performance produced by today's newer rifles, powders and saboted bullets. For a look at loads for today's rifles go to:
http://www.namlhunt.com/modernmldata.html
http://www.namlhunt.com/modernmldata.html
We Will Add Other Early In-Line Rifle Models & Loads As We Go
If you need load data for a specific powder/bullet combo and rifle, drop us an e-mail at - toby@namlhunt.com
For A Great Muzzleloader Scope Deal - http://www.namlhunt.com/specialoffer.html
The Speer .451" 260-grain JHP Is Still A Great Deer Bullet - www.speer-bullets.com
